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First Name?

9/14/2017

16 Comments

 
Rabbi Ross. Over the past few years, I’ve noticed something that drives me crazy. My neighbors are a wonderful Frum family, but they let their children call adults by their first names. My English name is Steven, and I find it so odd that these 9-year-olds are calling me like that. I would assume they would say “Mr. Sacks” because it’s more respectful. My children were taught never to address an adult by their name. I was curious how you felt about this. Steven Sacks – Brooklyn
Mr. Sacks, thank you for your question. This issue has been bothering me for so many years, and I was wondering when someone would bring this up. There is a simple answer to this question, and, although it may seem complicated, it’s pretty straightforward.

The answer is, yes, children should call adults with a proper title. You should be called Mr. Sacks by your neighbor’s children. This is not only an issue of respect for you, it’s a great way to teach children respect for their elders.

However, this somewhat simple concept often gets confusing. How do we define children versus adults?  A six-year-old boy should not call his adult neighbors by their first name. How about an 18-year-old?  At what age is it acceptable, if ever?  Furthermore, what if this particular neighbor tells your six-year-old, “Call me Jerry”. Is that OK?

Additionally, there is also the family issue. When dealing with uncles and aunts, should children include a title when speaking to them? If the aunt’s name is Sara, should a child call her Sara, or Aunt Sara? What if this aunt doesn’t want the title added?  Then there are those families that are careful to address adults by Mr. or Mrs., however, are less stringent with their own family members or very close family friends.

This is where parenting comes into play. I believe that we, as parents, should teach our children to address adults with a title. We should explain to them that we need to give respect to those that are older than us, and that one of the ways of accomplishing this is by calling them Mr. or Mrs., or even Dr.

However, we can also tell our children that there are exceptions to this rule. If someone requests that they be called by their first name, doing so in and of itself is a sign of respect. The same holds true with aunts and uncles. Ideally, they should have a title (unless the uncle or aunt is the same, or similar, age). If, however, this family member does not want a title, for whatever reason, the child (and you) should respect their decision. One girl told me that having “aunt” in front of her name, makes her feel old. That’s as good a reason as anything else.

On a somewhat related note, is calling someone by their first name only an issue of honor and respect?  How about men calling married women by their first names?  Although many people have no problem doing this, there are those who say it’s terribly inappropriate. There is something to be said (from a Tznius perspective) about not being on a “first-name basis”. This is valid sensitivity that some might have and should ask their Rav for guidance.  A lot of this depends on situational awareness, but again, it’s not the type of question I can answer.

In conclusion, how we address adults and people in general boils down to one important lesson. Teach your children to be respectful of others – especially elders. Once you’ve accomplished this, everything else becomes smooth sailing. How to accomplish this?  Well, you’ll have to read my response to that question in my next email. Alternatively, you can ask your own parents. They probably did a fine job.

Have a great Shabbos!

YR​
16 Comments
Chaim L.
9/14/2017 08:17:04 pm

Agreed. Children have no business calling adults by their names. Unless of course it's requested.

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Efraim Blinder
9/14/2017 08:25:07 pm

I'm really enjoying your perspective. Regarding the point about Tznius, if only that was our biggest issue. I would let that slide. Remember, we need to choose our battles.

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T.C.
9/14/2017 08:40:57 pm

Here's a question. What if you're uncomfortable with a child calling you by your first name. Can you ask him to stop? How about a man?

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Rob Kurtz
9/14/2017 08:53:04 pm

Close to brilliant but couldn't disagree more! I believe that your children should never call adults by their first name. If it makes their Aunt feel old that would be her problem, but if the goal is to raise your children to have a healthy respect for the people in their lives then calling adults by their first names is a no go. I am over 50 and I still call my parents friends whom I have known since childhood by their proper surnames.
My wife and I once attended a shiur by the great parenting expert Rabbi Orlewick and he was asked what to do if you want to raise respectful children in these chutzpahdic times but you live in a community where children commonly call adults by their first name he answered "Move".
Tell Auntie to get over it, your children's chinuch and potential as a bnei Torah is way more important than the possibility that she might feel old. Your child is not her friend they are her neice or nephew.
Or as I once explained to an Aunt of mine, there are a million "Joan's" in the world but I have only one Aunt Joan" and that title and the relationship that goes with it makes her special... She's been my only "Aunt Joan" ever since.

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Dovid B.
9/14/2017 10:20:22 pm

Mr. Kurtz :-) - What about a scenario when the Aunt asks the child NOT to call her aunt? What if they're the same age? You're only brining up one part of the article. What's the age difference that requires the respect? Or, since I'm older, can I call you Rob?

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Chaia Frishman
9/14/2017 10:34:51 pm

Rabbi Orlowek is my Rebbe and the utmost authority on chinuch. I think that you bring up a great point about how to navigate the desires of the adults. Stuck between a rock and a hard place. Teach them respect yet they are told to act in a way we consider disrespectful out of respect.... It's a hard call.

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Dovid B.
9/14/2017 10:37:45 pm

Rabbi Orlowek is a master in Chinuch. However, my point is that it's almost impossible to answer many of these questions without knowing the particulars. That's why I enjoy this blog (I usually despise blogs and emails like this.) Rabbi Ross speaks from a general concept...and in this case, I'm agreeing with what he says. Respect first, but follow the lead of the adult.

Shayna Feil
9/14/2017 10:40:03 pm

My husband & I were just discussing this a few days ago. We came to a similar conclusion. The difference was, we told our kids, they should ask people how they would like to be called. This solves all the problems, and teaches out children to respect the decisions of others.

Chaia Frishman
9/14/2017 09:11:40 pm

We believe that anyone from the next generation. Anyone old enough to be your parent or aunt or uncle deserves a title. Obviously if my sixteen year old has a 19 year old, straight out of seminary as her Morah, she will address her as Morah, or Miss such and such. Our close friends have their kids call us by our names with Tante and Uncle as title because Mr. and Mrs. Frishman was too formal.
That said, the rule of thumb for me has always been to to let my friends educate their own kids. If they want their children to call me by my first name, it isn't my place to tell them what to do. I am not their parent. It might irk me when someone four year old calls me Chaia, but if that's how their parent introduces me, that's not my problem down the road.

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Eli Gross
9/14/2017 09:20:16 pm

I disagree with this. Kids calling adults by their names isn't such a big deal. As it is, we are dealing with a generation that is growing up with hypocrisy from all over. We need to stabilize the ship. Step on, make a decision on what our priorities are. It would seem that it's now important to Daven quietly and learn well, then to worry about titles. Besides, very few people still care.

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Retired Parent
9/14/2017 10:42:01 pm

I am shocked how often children call older people by first names. Many call me byfirst name and I am retired on Medicare!
It is not the name issue, many just have no idea of respect old. They may know how to shakes, and Daven aloud to get reward by school but I don't see much basic menchkite emphasized,

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Private
9/14/2017 10:42:32 pm

Point taken. I remember when I was about 6 years old, I called my mother by her first name. I guess I was copying my father. He slapped me so hard I couldn't sit for a week. I never forgot this. I call my wife mommy in front of the kids, so they shouldn't imitate me and remind me of that unpleasant incident.

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A Retired Bubby and Zaidy
9/14/2017 10:47:01 pm

It's time for us to weigh in (Pun from last week's article). One of the issues that we face as Jews, is that we feel the need to "teach" our children everything. We should not be teaching our kids how to call others. They should be learning by example.

This is the easiest way to resolve some of these issues. If they see you calling your sister "Aunt Tova", they'll also call her Aunt Tova. If your sister doesn't want to be called Aunt, call her Tova, and your kids will do the same. If they ask why, you can tell them the truth. In other words, don't make it an discussion unless you need to.

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R.D.
9/15/2017 01:02:52 am

Please don't share my name. I think this email is absolutely correct, although it's a standing argument in my house. My hubby likes when the kids call others by their names. He says it keeps everyone grounded. I think it's disrespectful. I would show him this email, but he wouldn't care.

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Mr. Schwartz
9/15/2017 07:20:01 am

Old School parenting. I love it! You can ask your own parents... classic line. I would like to add that disrespect is a sign of Moshiach.

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Rivky Breuer
9/18/2017 12:12:19 pm

I'm in complete agreement and I find it very disturbing when children call their friends parents by their first name. I enforce it by referring to other adults as "Mrs. Smith" in front of my kids, as in "Mordy, please give "Mrs. Smith" a glass of water" Even if she is my good friend "Sarah". Aunts and Uncle are titled as such and I will correct kids. I will refer to my friends spouses as Mr/Rabbi/Dr. Neither myself or my husband would call another persons spouse by their first name. Exception is siblings. I told a parent of my 7 year olds friend that the child said my 1st name about 50 times during a playdate maybe out of novelty because I have the same name as her mother, and the mother said "No, my kids call all their friends parents by their first names" I said wow... And I'm not going to change my position on this issue.

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    Rabbi Yitzie Ross is a Rebbe and has been working with parents and kids for many years. You can read more about him in the "about" section.

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