Stop the Talking...

Rabbi Ross. Thank you for all the work you put in to this blog. I’m having an issue, not with my children, but with other children. In Shul on Shabbos, there are many kids outside of the shul during davening or laining or the speech, and these kids range anywhere from 5 to 16 years old. They talk the whole time and it’s just wrong. What can I tell these children to convince them to daven inside the shul? Eliyahu – Location Redacted

The short answer is nothing. They are not your children, and therefore it’s not your job to get involved. If you really want to help, you can go to the Rav and ask if there’s anything you can do to help. Maybe the Shul can hire someone to run a teen Minyan or youth groups if you don’t already have them.  You can assist in making those arrangements by either securing the necessary finances or helping with the logistics.

I’m actually not a huge fan of youth groups, but if the kids are roaming the hallways, it’s certainly important to have structure. There are many Shuls that teach the children how to be “Chazzanim”, as well as the Halachos of Laining, Hagbah, Gelila and much more. Although children who Daven in Shul every Shabbos generally learn these skills, there are some children who can gain a great deal from these younger minyanim. To be brutally honest, there are also some children that should not be sitting (or fidgeting) next to their parents in Shul. In all these situations, a youth minyan is a great option.

The situation that you described, is unfortunately, a common one is certain communities. One of the reasons that I redacted the location that you provided, was that I felt it might constitute Lashon Hara. Most Shuls don’t have this issue, but there are a few in each community where this is, unfortunately, common. One father told me recently, “At least they’re in shul. It’s a step in the right direction.”

I respectfully disagree. It is certainly NOT a step in the right direction. You have your fourteen-year-old son spending most of the Shabbos davening outside in the hallway, loudly talking with his friends. There are those that would suggest it would be better if he stayed at home.  I have mixed feelings about it, but parents should not be “OK” with the situation. I know I’m heading into dangerous territory here, but I don’t think the Rav of these shuls should ignore the situation either.

In order to deal with this serious issue, the community needs to approach it from three angles.

1. The Parents. Yelling or threatening your children at this stage is probably useless. If your son feels that davening is too long, try and find a Shul that has an age-appropriate Davening. If need be, Daven with him in this other Shul. Explain to your son that a Shul is a Makom Kadosh, and it needs to be treated as such. Talking during the davening, even outside the shul, is not appropriate. Of course, you can’t tell him this if you yourself don’t Daven in the shul without talking.  In either case, certainly speak to his Rebbe and let him know that you’re having this issue, which brings us to…
2. ,The Yeshivos. It’s hard enough to get teenagers to follow directions in Yeshiva, so convincing them to stay in Shul on Shabbos will not be easy. That doesn’t mean it should be ignored. Especially if a parent calls asking for help. I don’t know exactly what the yeshiva can do, but doing nothing isn’t an option. At the very least, the Rebbe can speak to the boy. Possibly the Yeshiva can motivate all the boys to Daven better by running some sort of contest.
3. The Rav. Being a Rav is not easy. Not only do they need to be available 24/7, but they need to prepare Shiurim, attend community functions, and deal with all the issues that arise.  I’m not trying to add to the list, but having kids congregate outside the shul or in the hallway during Davening is not okay. One Rav told me in confidence that having them outside the shul is better than having them talking inside the Shul. I can’t argue with that, although I’m not sure if it might not be better for them to stay home and Daven.  In any case, I think that any Shul that’s having this issue should, at the very least, recognize it. Someone should bring it up for discussion at the next board meeting, even if there is no solution.   

I have spoken at length to some of these boys and received many reasons for their extended “breaks”. Here are a few of them, in their words.

1. “Davening is too long.”
2. “I don’t understand the words.”
3. “We’re not doing anything wrong.”
4. “Better to talk out here than what my dad does.”
5. My personal favorite… “Hashem loves me no matter what!”

Getting back to your question, although there is nothing you can say to these children outside, you do need to be proactive with your own children. When they see these other children outside, they might think it’s okay, or worse, want to join them. You should never put down these other children, rather explain that every parent raises their children differently. Although there may be children outside the Shul, there are also many children inside the Shul davening beautifully. Make sure to continuously compliment your children on their Davening, and you can even give them random special treats and rewards as well.

Hopefully, we can all work together to ensure that our children understand the importance of Davening in the Shul like the B’nai Torah they are.

Have a good Shabbos,
YR